An Oscar Grant supporter talking to a Johannes Mehserle supporter. pt 1


An Oscar Grant supporter talking to a Johannes Mehserle supporter. pt 1

by Ner City

Yesterday Charles posted information regarding a rally in support of Johannes Mehserle in Walnut Creek (In front of the courthouse). 30 minutes later Tiana posted the facebook invite link on my page. I went into the invite and became very upset. Not only did I see that the invite had 25 people within the first 10-15 minutes RSVP’ing but there were a lot of people that had changed their avatar (Main picture) with a photo of Johannes Mehserle and written underneath was “I support Johannes Mehserle”

So, instead of bashing the people, start name calling and all that other non productive bs I decided to think outside of the box and friend request as many of the supporters that I could. Doing that I thought that I would be able to talk to them one on one. Out of the 5-6 people that I requested only one was brave enough to not only accept my friend request but also have a respectful dialog with me about her feelings on the entire Grant/Mehserle situation.

Here is that dialog. PLEASE SEE- This is not a forum to bash Kristin, though we do not agree I do give her credit for even having this dialog with me. I WILL NOT allow any ignorant post on this note. I will not only delete the post but I will also delete you from my friend’s list.

Between You and Kristin********

Kristin ********* July 13 at 4:15pm

hello…and thank you for the friend request. Yes I support Johannes Mehserle….NO I do not think Oscar Grant should have died. I believe it was a tragic accident. One that would not have happened if he had complied with the officers commands. or maybe not have happened if the police had more training…did you know it takes longer to become a barber than a cop?? Thats insane…

I truly do not believe he intended to kill or hard Mr. Grant…only to subdue him. do you really feel in your heart that Johannes wanted him dead? ner city July 13 at 4:32pm

This conversation between us is revolutionary and brave and I appreciate you accepting my request.

To answer your question “Yes”, in my heart I do believe that Johannes Mehserle wanted to shoot Oscar Grant. “Why?” you may ask. Because of the situation he was in. We both agree that the police training is a joke. We also probably agree that a police officer’s job is one of the hardest jobs in the world, who knows what ANY officer would’ve done that night on the Bart platform. But with that little training Mr. Mehserle had it still was training”. Now in the US studies have shown that there were roughly around 39 incidents where an on duty police officer accidently shot a man with his pistol instead of his taser. 38 of the 39 officers tried to save the person’s life that they accidently shot, rode either behind the ambulance or in it to the hospital with the suspect. The 1 out of the 39 that didn’t was Mr. Mehserle. Not only did Mr. Mehserle shot him, but he THEN put handcuffs on a shot man.

Now here’s a question for you, we know that Oscar Grant had a past history with resisting arrest, but did you know that Mehserle not only was kicked out of the school that voted him “Most Huggable” for slapping a Latina woman, but also had incidents before where he tased suspects who either had a weapon, or he thought they had weapons.

I honestly believe that Mehserle not only shot Grant on purpose but he also did it to impress Officer Peroni who is another story and person that should’ve been arrested with Johannes.

Kristin******* July 13 at 4:48pm

My heart is heavy that you feel this way….I truly trukly believe otherwise. I do not know why Mehserle didn’t ride in the ambulance…I do not know if his superiors would have let him. I also believe (as does my sister who has her PHD in Psycology (I can barely spell it) believe he went into a state of shock…Mehserle seemed dazed after to me.

I’m not sure why it matters that Mehserle had tased before….I did NOT know he slapped anyone. 10 years ago my nephew snapped a bra of a girl that had said something smart to him in class, the teacher saw and he was suspended for assault…Assault?? really?? they said it was sexual assualt. But of course I did know Oscar has a past history….

I can imagine with all the jaw flapping in the background and Grant resisting that the situaltion was getting chaotic….I wonder why Peroni (whom I believe has been on the force much longer)

Kristin******** July 13 at 4:51pm

did not step in and help difuse the situation. Why would Mehserle think killing somebody and shooting them in the back no less would impress ANYONE???

I just don’t think anyone would ever think that would be a move that would impress anyone….unless you lived in some scary inbreed ozarks kind of place…. ner city July 13 at 6:33pm

Kristin my heart’s been heavy over this situation for years. You say that Mehserle “went into a state of shock”, correct? Is this before or after he shot Oscar Grant? And if so then what was his state before he shot him?

Was it “Shock” that had Mehserle’s first excuse he thought Oscar was going for a gun changed to “I thought my gun was my taser”? How can you change excuses? Why would you change excuse unless the defense and Mehserle knew that the video clearly showed Oscar’s hands were not reaching for a gun which means that defense would’ve failed miserably.

It is not fair or right to give Mehserle the benefit of the doubt of snapping or going “into a state of shock” but not give those same rights to Oscar. There isn’t any proof that Oscar was one of the people fighting on the train so if a police officer pulls an innocent man off a train for no reason then might the person in “shock” is Oscar Grant? That “shock” would have some people asking “Why are you doing this?”

What about the “shock” you may be in when you have the weight of two men weighing over 250 pounds on top of you?

Now please know that I am not saying Oscar was a saint. I do not know the entire situation but what I do know is that he did not deserve to get tased while he was already held down and really didn’t deserve to be murdered.

Kristin we live in two different worlds within the same state. This is not an insult to your intelligence by any means. I “assume” that you live in a world that believes in the police & the justice system. That police believe and uphold the “Serve & Protect” slogan for their citizens. If anybody breaks the law then they have the right to use necessary force. But the thing is I live in the world where police murder black & Latino men and uses the “I thought he was going for a gun” excuse while hiding behind the ‘Blue Wall’.

Abner Louima, Amadou Diallo, Ayana Jones, Rodney King, Fred Hampton Sr. and the list goes on and on regarding police officers using excessive force and/or murdering men of color.

Kristin, Johannes Merhserle doesn’t deserve your support. What your nephew did cannot compare to what Mehserle did. Did you know that woman he slapped was a teacher? That is why he got kicked out of school, it’s because he slapped a person of authority. After years that same person becomes a police officer.

Kristin******* July 13 at 7:39pm

First of all…I don’t know that he was dazed I just thought he looked dazed…my own opinion. Also, it is my understanding that he did not change his defense…it appears in the video that Oscar is reaching for something in his pocket so Mehserle was going to grab his taser and hopefully subdue him to get the cuffs on.

Im going to give you shock for Oscar as well….but at some point don’t you comply?

I want to make this clear… I SUPPORT JOHANNES MEHSERLE..I am supporting this incident…not a “blue wall” when that happens….I will support otherwise.

Does the Dr. that prescribed Michael Jackson the meds that killed him deserve to be tried for murder? Of course I would want to hear his reasons but I assume it was out of greed..I am sure Michael was paying him top dollar to get the prescriptions he wanted. Do I think the Dr. (or Nurse) that gave the meds to Dennis quaids twins should be tried for attempted murder? well at the end of the day that was an mistake not hing was to be gained from it. Does this analgy make sense?CLearly you are intelligent and I thank you for listening to me…but I feel sadly at the end of the day we are just never going to understand where each other stands.

ner city July 14 at 8:24am

Kristin,

I understand the analogy that you used but honestly it really doesn’t apply here.

And since you have a photo of Johannes Mehserle on your avatar to show your support for him you really should understand/know as much as you can about this man.

These are facts that you should research-

-Mehserle got kicked out of school for slapping his teacher.

-Mehserle did not ride off to the hospital or even try to see if Oscar Grant was ok after he shot him.

– He did not offer his condolences to the family until July 4th in a letter 18 months after the fact and a few days before his verdict was coming down.

-Oscar Grant did not have a weapon.

– His taser is bright yellow and doesn’t have the same amount of safety precautions as his more heavier police pistol.

– Mehserle did change his defense from “I thought that he was reaching for a weapon” to “I thought that I grabbed my taser”.

Now, Kristin we come from and live in two different worlds we both understand that, we probably live two different lifestyles, we probably of two different colors, and maybe even different religions and political stances but there is ONE thing that we both are and that is “Human”. And as a human Kristin ask yourself, would you shot a man and not even check and see if he was alright? Would you cuff him and go on about your way? If you THOUGHT that he was going for his gun but then found out that he was unarmed wouldn’t the “Human” side of you check and see if he was alright? Would the “Human” side of you wait 18 months (just a few days before the verdict was about to be released) to apologize to the Grant family? Even if you thought that you were reaching for your taser, even if you thought he was reaching for a gun would you Kristin wait 18 months? Even if your lawyer told you? That’s not what humans do.

I would not yell “I am Oscar Grant” if I didn’t know as much as I could about this man. I would not make a mistake of supporting a person that didn’t need to be supported, but I honestly feel that you are doing that with Johannes Mehserle. You aren’t really even supporting Johannes Mehserle, more than supporting good police officers (Which I believe they’re out there), but Kristin Johannes is NOT one of the “good guys”.

Even a “Jury of his own peers” convicted him of a criminal act.

Think about it- The trial was moved out of Oakland

No African Americans were on the jury

5-6 jury members had either police officers as friends or family members

And they STILL came back with “Involuntary Manslaughter”. Which I thought was wrong he should’ve at least got manslaughter but even still they thought Johannes committed a criminal act and abused his powers and you’re STILL telling me that you support him?

You still want to have his picture on your avatar? These are the facts not hopes, not beliefs but facts Kristin. You are supporting a criminal. I don’t care if he went into “Shock” he “Snapped” whatever a jury of his peers that didn’t have any bias when convicting him. So in ways it’s an oxymoron because you believe in the justice system with Mehserle but not in the justice system convicting him. Which one is it?

Again how can you support a convicted criminal?

I would like to keep this line of communication open. I would also like for you to create a note on your facebook, tag as many of your friends that support Mehserle and post this dialog between us. Let them see the facts, I will do the same, I will not allow any of my supporters to bash, call you names and I would hope that you can do the same for me because that won’t get us anywhere, I want to promote a dialog between both sides because I too want to believe what you believe (Not in Mehserle but believe in the system) but we both need to clean house and not support injustice. Injustice like rogue cops, or injustice like rogue black men & women that looted stores or commits “Black on black crimes” in my community. Until we both start making these changes these problems will always come around. 4 more police officers will be murdered (Which I don’t support), while people like Oscar Grant will be murdered by criminals like Mehserle.

original story:http://www.facebook.com/notes/ner-city/an-oscar-grant-supporter-talking-to-a-johannes-mehserle-supporter-pt-1/404415966830

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22 comments on “An Oscar Grant supporter talking to a Johannes Mehserle supporter. pt 1

  1. Pingback: The Police Strike Back to Booster their Image w/ Lawsuits, Support Rallies & Unabashed Bashing of Victims « Davey D’s Hip Hop Corner-(The Blog)

  2. Ner City, I wanted to commend you for opening this dialog between both sides. I don’t always agree with Davey D’s politics, but I’ve always respected him for being an intelligent and insightful facilitator and I think that in turn attracts intelligent and insightful discussions. Let’s see if this can be one of those conversations. I wanted to ask you some questions, but before that I had a few comments to make on your post.

    “He did not offer his condolences to the family until July 4th in a letter 18 months after the fact and a few days before his verdict was coming down.”

    The way our legal system is set up any kind of condolence could be used as evidence by the prosecution as an admission of guilt. I’m sure if Oscar Grant’s lawyer were defending Mehserle he would have given him the exact same advice, “Don’t say anything until it goes to the jury.”

    “No African Americans were on the jury.”

    And whose fault was that? How come more black people didn’t show up to perform their civic duty, because you know sure as hell the prosecution would have fought tooth and nail to put as many black folks that showed up on that jury as possible. I’ve read comments about, “Who will fix our broken legal system?” Well, maybe blacks folks can if they start showing up to jury duty just like all the white folks that showed up for the Mehserle trial. If just a fraction of the black folks that were rioting in Oakland, smashing cars, looting Footlockers and what not over the past 2 years had shown up for jury duty that day the verdict would have been a lot different.

    And in the interest of promoting a dialog between both sides, which can be really difficult if not impossible for liberals in the Bay Area to do, let me ask you some point-blank honest questions.

    Can you explain why there is an epidemic in the Bay Area of black kids beating to death Asian senior citizens, sometimes for no reason at all?

    Lavonte Drummer and Dominic Davis, two 18-year-old black kids beat to death Tian Sheng Yu, a 59-year-old Asian man in the streets of Oakland. What kind of parent raises their kid to think it’s OK to commit an atrocity like that, and on a senior citizen no less?

    Huan Chen, an 83-year-old man, was beaten to death by a group of 5 black kids in SF. Later at the same stop as 53-year-old Asian woman was thrown on the tracks by a group of black kids. Who the hell raises their children to behave this way?

    There was a really insightful comment a while ago in the SF Weekly coverage of the Haggag Mohsin shooting trial –

    “Arabs got it made in the United States. I’ve been in jail a lot of times and I’ve never seen one. Now if he were a black man, he’d be in the penitentiary.”

    Like you have said several times before, we live in different worlds, so let me ask you, why is that black people think it’s perfectly OK for their kids to go to jail? Why do mothers think it’s perfectly OK, even a normal rite of passage, for their kids to do time? You look at lots other cultures, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, ect people that have had it far worse than blacks in assimilating in the US, and that type of behavior is not acceptable. You go to jail and you are disowned from the family. Why is it that people who are English as a second language and have it far worse than most blacks, have a culture that says you are to struggle to make more for themselves and that it’s not acceptable to be a thug. Yet the majority (not all, but definitely the majority) of black people under the age of 25 glorify and embrace this thug/welfare culture; always hate the cops, expect to go to jail, and never seem to want to make the world a better place for themselves and their neighbors? Why is that?

  3. I guess dialogue is important Moshin especially when one says so many things that are misleading… This set of questions leaves one spending most of the time refuting or putting things in perspective.. It also shows a lot of assumptions.. Let’s start with the Asian situation in Oakland..

    There was no rash of Blacks beating Asians.. U had two knuckleheads who beat an elderly Black man and then punched an young Asian man.. His father intervened.. the men told him to fall back, he didnt and then they beat him.. he died from his injuries.. There was no excuse for that.. What iot reminded me of is what I seen high school kids do all over the country.. try an sucker punch someone to see if they can knock them out or shoot BB guns from passing cars. Its not unique to Black folks in the hood, having been the recipient of pellet guns from my Italian and Irish neighbors growing up in New York..

    You painted the spectre of out of control black men in oakland and neglected to point out that we had a black victim.. who fortunately did not die.. You had Black people who stopped their cars and rushed to the aid of the Asian man and you had Black folks who rushed after the kids and identified them..

    Two weeks later while folks like you were screaming there’s a rash of Black vs Asian.. the family of the victim came to Allen temple of Church along with members of that community for that very dialogue. Rev Buford our outreach minister set that up and our entire church participated..

    In the weeks that followed there was lots of dialogue in both oakland and SF.. on a number of fronts.. First we had a thing where elders of all races weren’t being respected.. The Asians situation made the news but there have been plenty of other victims.. which is inexcusable. There have been lots of orgs working with youth to try and get a better handle from United Playaz in SF on down to your Omega Boys club.. There is no sound reason why attacks on the elderly is happening.. To be honest some people simply don’t care..some get their kicks …Why did someone attempt to car jack my 70 year old mom several months ago in hayward.. We have no idea.. luckily shes ok.. but we understand that we have a collective disdain for our elders..

    From where I sit the two 18 year olds are no different then the the scoundrels who drained out elderly people’s bank accounts with the financial schemes that have caused this economic downturn.. However Lavante and Dominic will do jail time while Lloyd Blankfien will sit before congress answer some questions and not lose a cent or sleep. I dont know whats worse, getting car jacked or having ur life savings via ur 401k disappear

    Second pt about ur jury situation..is false.. read the accounts and you find that one of the main reasons for moving this trial to LA was because Rains made the case that the jury with African Americans would be not be impartial. So he was pushing for them to be off… The area which the jury pool was pulled from was mostly white and Latino..It wasn’t all of LA.. and from what was relayed it did not include the heavily Black area of South Central.. The judge should’ve pulled from a wider area, but opted not to.. His call that was objected to.. This is all explained in the Report Back, Colorlines.. So this wasnt a case of folks not showing up.. it was simply which circle did you pull from..He pulled jury from the first circle..

    Your last set of questions about jail and people liking it and aspiring toward that is absolutely stupid and deserves no answer. You’re smarter than that.. It’s not the basis for any dialogue… thats called try to be provocative.. Ner City aint gonna answer that and neither will anyone else..
    In that area from what I’m told you will have large swaths of people missing including young

  4. Pingback: An Oscar Grant supporter talking to a Johannes Mehserle supporter. pt 1 (via Davey D’s Hip Hop Corner-(The Blog)) « Davey D’s Archived Essential Hip Hop Articles

  5. Well done DD. I hope she answers your question about supporting a convicted criminal.

  6. “Well done DD. I hope she answers your question about supporting a convicted criminal.”

    She….?

    Also, aren’t both sides supporting a convicted criminals?

    “Oscar Grant had a criminal record, according to the California Department of corrections and Rehabilitation, he served several months in state prison in 2007 and 2008. The Department of Corrections didn’t disclose the offenses for which Grant was sentenced. Grant had 12 separate cases between April 12, 2004, and May 8, 2008. But the records for all of those cases are at the Hayward Hall of Justice and weren’t immediately available.”

    Source –

    http://today24news.com/entertainment/is-oscar-grant-criminal-or-has-criminal-record-091684.

    Of the 12 separate cases that Oscar Grant racked up in a 4 year period, one of which was felony drug possession, it was only the 2006 incident where officers spotted him with a gun, chased him down, and then tasered him, that was admissible in court.

    And no, before anyone puts words in my mouth, I’m not saying that justifies by any means his killing, but if you choose to live a lifestyle where you have constant run-ins with the law, sell drugs, carry a gun, and hang out with a crowd that instigate fights in public places you should expect a much higher risk of getting hurt, or even accidentally killed, when the cops are called in.

    Where’s the accountability for that?

  7. Peace Mohsin,

    Your posts demonstrate that you are coming from a place of deep seated anger towards young black men, and this troubles me deeply. I do not know why you believe that ANY mother would think it was okay for their child to be incarcerated, or condone it as a “rite of passage”–especially the mother of a child whose ethnicity is heavily overrepresented in prisons.

    Your portrayal of the black community, mainly in Oakland, particularly of black men, sounds more like a Lil Wayne song than reality.

    It is erroneous to attack the accountability of parenting in the black community without equally accounting for the prison industrial complex that disproportionately houses black and latinos, while its benefactors are primarily white—or without accounting for the drugs brought into our community via the iran contra scandal. You can’t look at simply look at the results of situations we did not create–their causes must be taken into consideration.

    Yes, I understand that Grant did not choose the best lifestyle. But if you’ve ever been to Oakland, particularly the areas referred to as the “hood,” then you’ll know that economic development isn’t open to its residents; the businesses that do come in don’t hire it’s residents either. Kudos to Oakland’s post-Black Panther Party gentrification in Oakland for the destruction of the thousands black-owned businesses that were once housed there.

    Is this a justification for resorting to an alternate economy? NO! Under no circumstances do I CONDONE the selling of drugs or gang violence.

    But we live reality where jobs are not available to us, or not being distributed fairly because of institutionalized racism. Valid reasons for me not being “employable” may be my name (1) or skin color (2). It has nothing to do with my qualifications, or work ethic, but with things tied to my ethnicity—something unchangeable.

    With that said, just because you don’t have a job doesn’t mean you don’t have bills. Money must be made. Unfortunately, some people resort to crime as its more lucrative of an option than waiting around for Wal-Mart to call back.

    His cases were not release because most of those cases occurred when he was a juvenile. The law requires that those cases be sealed and protected. Even if you may not forgive him for his younger troubles, the law does.

    Now, as far as the “we didn’t show up for jury duty” b.s. you have going on in your head. Get real. There were black jurors in the juror pool but none of them were selected. Based on current judicial standards for discounting black jurors(3), I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t even valid reasons.

    Another thing, there is no evidence that has ever been presented that Grant and his friends were actually involved in the fight that the BART cops were responding to.

    1. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_9_20/ai_104521293/
    2. http://www.astcweb.org/public/publication/documents/HarrisonTJEJan2010.pdf
    3. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/us/02jury.html

  8. Supporters of Oscar Grant are supporters of a felon, parolee a/k/a criminal. So why judge Kristen for supporting a criminal?

    How many times was Oscar Grant arrested in his 22 years? How many times did he violate parole that very night? How about Mehserle? Now the quote about slapping a girl in high school. Did OG ever do anything so stupid? Where is the evidence of this rumor? That likely would come up in his background investigation. Perhaps it was warranted. Yes, I dare say warranted. If she kicked him in the groin and he reacted, it would be no less a reaction versus a provocation.

    So if you chant, “We are Oscar Grant.” then chant, “We are all felons on parole.”

  9. Big difference here Public Records Guy is our tax dollars pay for Mehserle and not for Grant…he’s expected to have a higher standard of behavior, thats why he has a gun and thats why there should be zero tolerance for a misstep.. Oscar for better or for worse done his time for his crimes..mehserle was still on the force for his rogue behavior.. This of course was tolerated in by BART and thats why both the two independent investigations NOBLE and Meyer Neves slammed them and recommended sweeping changes and firings..

    I am Oscar Grant is symbolic of a dreadful pattern.. maybe we could say I’m adolph Grimes who was shot 12 times in the back in new orleans same night as Oscar.. No video tape, and an on going FBI investigation.. He had no criminal record and the police said he had a gun.. which he did.. he was licensed to carry one.. but no evidence showed he shot it as was initially claimed and why 12 times in the back? Of course we would have folks like you not believing the story.. so we’d have to move on..

    Same night Robbie Tolan.. shot in his own drive way point blank like Grant when cops accused him of stealing his own car. His mom came out to protest and got roughed up by the police tolan turns around to object and gets shot.. He lived.. so we have folks claiming it was a ‘mistake’ like they did with Grant.. We wont even get into the death threats levied at the parents and the lawyers around the Tolan case..

    Grant was caught on film.. It happened in fronts of dozens of people.. so I am Oscar Grant means a man who wasn’t fighting as accused. Who wasn’t resisting as accused.. who was on his back unarmed got shot by an officer who had incidents and was still allowed on the force.. Oscar was no angel.. But when you put on that badge I and everyone else expect you to be above board at all times..

    The behavior of Pirone and Domenci were just as bad.. The fact they lied made it worse..The saddest part to all of this Mehserle hid behind Police Mans; bill of rights so his conduct wasnt up for discussion like Grants who is now deceased.

    So yes I’m oscar grant.. a parole and felon and I can own up to this.. How about you? You cant and wont.. thats the difference..

  10. The accountability is Grant served his time…. mehserle didnt know this when he approached him.. and nor was oscar selling drugs carrying a weapon or anything like that on the evening at hand..

  11. I don’t understand how on one hand people can talk down about Oscar Grant (refer to him as a thug and criminal) and then on the other hand say I support Mehserle.

    For those that support the convicted killer Mehserle, please explain to me the difference?

  12. One, thank you Davey D for posting this, as always I appreciate everything that you do for the community.

    Two, the two individuals that want to know how a person can support Oscar Grant that had a criminal past but wonder how others can support Mehserle my question to you is “Are you serious?”

    Oscar Grant is not a saint and most of his supporters knew/know this. I don’t care if he commited a crime the night before he got arrested, he did not deserve to be shot in the back and murdered. Mr. Grant served his time. He probably didn’t get the assistance of a high price attorney, a chance to get his drug or armed robery charges moved out of Hayward to another area, he probably didn’t have a jury trial where there were 5-6 black people that had drug dealers as friends or family members to hear his case, he was convicted and did his time. Mehserle on the other hand was a police officer not a regular citizen which means we hold him up to a higher standard. We pay taxes to make sure that he’s properly trained to “Serve & Protect” us.

    His mistake of “Accidently” killing Oscar is much more serious than Oscar’s mistake(s) before the two met that New Years Morning and he (Mehserle) should be convicted for that.

  13. “Another thing, there is no evidence that has ever been presented that Grant and his friends were actually involved in the fight that the BART cops were responding to.”

    This is open to debate and contested, by all people, by one of Oscar Grant’s own friends.

    http://www.ktvu.com/news/19523065/detail.html

    Passenger Dennis Zafiratos of Castro Valley testified that a group of 10 to 12 people were in a fight on the BART train before it was stopped at the Fruitvale station.

    Zafiratos said the fight “lasted quite a little while” and involved “pushing, shoving and throwing punches.”

    He said the primary participants in the fight appeared to be a black man and a white man but it also appeared to involve a group of black men fighting a group of Latino men.

    Zafiratos didn’t identify Grant as being one of the participants in the fight, but on Tuesday one of Grant’s friends, 16-year-old Jamil Dewar, testified for the prosecution that Grant, who is black, got into a fight with a white man after the white man’s son was called a name by someone in Grant’s group of friends.

    When Rains showed Zafiratos a photograph of David Horowitch, Zafiratos identified him as being the white passenger who was fighting the black passenger.

    But when Rains then called Horowitch, 34, to the witness stand, Horowitch said, “I didn’t get in no fight that night” and “I have no problem with Oscar Grant.”

    Horowitch said he met Grant, who served two short state prison terms for various felonies, when both men were incarcerated in the Alameda County Jail in Dublin “a few years ago.”

    Horowitch said he had seen Grant at Pier 39 in San Francisco on New Year’s Eve but didn’t see him on BART.

    Rains alleged that Horowitch was afraid to admit that he’d been in a fight with Grant because if he did so it would be a violation of the terms of his parole for his felony conviction for possession of drugs for sale and he would be sent back to state prison.

    But when Rains asked if Horowitch was afraid to testify because “you fear repercussions to you or your family,” Horowitch said, “I feel more fear from police than anyone because I’m being harassed.”

    Woffinden said he and other officers were on edge New Years’ Eve because there had been several reports of passengers having guns in unrelated incidents at BART stations in San Francisco and at the West Oakland station.

    He said he and Mehserle were at the West Oakland station responding to the incident there when they got the call to help out at the Fruitvale station.

    **

    It does not surprise me that anyone accused of fighting with Oscar Grant that night would change their story. Would you really want to be known as the guy who got into a fight with what has become The Patron Saint of East Bay Opposed Youth?

    It think that’s what bugs me the most about this story, that everyone seems to have their own agenda and is imposing, with blinders on, only what they want to see onto this story. Both sides are guilty of this. You think all the anarchist out there really give a f*ck about OG or are just using this as an excuse to further their own agenda. I think there’s a little part of that same self-centered type agenda coming from both sides.

    Another part of me wonders how much of Oakland would have really cared about OG if he was white.

    And to tie that into the previous police brutality examples that DD mentioned, which we could spend all of eternity talking about, here’s a perfect example of that in action.

    Black transgender woman beaten on tape, completely unprovoked, cop used mace and even wrapped his fists in his handcuffs. Nurse comes and gives first aid to the cop, ignores the black person with a split skull and blood pouring out of her head.

    Where’s Jesse Jackson? Where’s Al Sharpton?

    Oh, that’s right. She’s a TS and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don’t like to associate with those kinds of folks. Maybe if Duana Johnson was a good looking kid like Oscar Grant they would flock to her cause. But they, and most of the liberal media, didn’t.

    But look at that tape. Pretty open and shut case, right?

    No. She got a mistrial and then a bullet in the head.

    http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/local/story/Duanna-Johnson-s-Murder-Still-Unsolved/4Vtswp8df0S8E03x0dj4uw.cspx

    To quote Renee Martin

    “This is a message that our so-called black leadership internalized, as the voices of Jesse Jackson and camera-whore Al Sharpton were strangely silent.

    One would believe that police brutality would be enough to cause anger in the black community, but few care about a drug addicted black trangender prostitute enough to sound the alarm. Though she was just as innocent as Sean Bell who met his death at the hands of police, her social status was enough for people to justify ignoring her.
    the voices of Jesse Jackson and camera-whore Al Sharpton were strangely silent.”

    **

    Projecting only what you want to see onto the story to futfill your own agenda.

    That’s something I see both sides, myself included, guilty of doing.

  14. I cant speak for Jesse or Al.. I know al did several shows on this .. I was on one of them and he told the Uncle.. who’s been on several times. He’s is there if the family needs him..He doesnt come unless asked so not to upset what process is taking place.. He did a couple of editorials on this.. Jesse has not spoken on this..Jesse and Al are not the only leaders in the community at 70 yrs old we need to stop only seeing them.. You have everyone from barbara lee on down to the array of young leaders who organized around this case..
    And yes there will be agendas pushed when cases like this come up bc they are public and public policy is at stake for victims of police misconduct this underscores systematic failure.. For cops who are facing budget cuts this tarnishes their image.. Everyone else who has an agenda of course is gonna weigh in.. thats politics..The bottomline here is the boys were detained not arrested and Grant didn’t deserve to die

  15. @ nercity

    just to be clear, i don’t find it possible to support Mehserle in his actions (killing oscar grant).

    Most folks that i’ve seen defending Mehserle always seem to try and deflect to other issues:

    – What about the black on black crime
    – well oscar had a record…
    -oscar was resisting…

    All bullshit. And the statistic that you provided about every other officer’s actions when they actually used their gun on accident (when meaning to use a taser) if very telling of Mehserle’s intent.

    on a personal note, as much as i felt that “involuntary manslaughter” was a bullshit verdict, on a bigger scale, i find some sort of peace knowing that this verdict is a step forward to the marathon race that we are running.

  16. Aren’t you in a sense supporting a criminal as well? I think you forget that Oscar Grant was in fact a convicted felon and was on probabtion at the time of his death. Point blank. Period.

    I am not saying he deserved to die but I do feel as though he holds some of the responsibility for acting like a plum fool.

    I have never been pulled off one of the bart trains by a police officer. I have never been thrown on the ground and asked to put my hands behind my back. I have never got into a fight with a bunch of my criminal friends and then pretended as if nothing ever happened. I have never been on parole. I have never been high on Fentanyl and alcohol. I have never been convicted of a felony. I am sorry sir but “I AM NOT OSCAR GRANT”

    And yes, I am an African American female.

  17. The problem with ur claim is that the officers lied both in their reports and on stand in relationship to what was written..and thats been proven.. Oscar served his time.. so whatever took place that night had nothing to do with went down that night. You said he didn’t deserve to die is right.. The officer was criminal in his behavior and needs to be appropriately punished.

  18. I cannot believe people are actually bringing up OG’s past history with the law. Although you’re all trying to cover yourselves by saying “I don’t say that to mean he deserved to be killed.” Right. That’s like prosecutors in rape cases who bring up the victim’s past sexual history, thus questioning the character of the victim and suggesting she was asking to get raped one day. So all this talk of OG’s MINOR infractions with the law as a youth is shallow and insulting. If you believe in our justice system as you say you do, then you must believe that time served appropriately makes up for the given crime.

    That said, even if he WAS fighting that night (to which there is NO conclusive evidence), there is STILL no excuse for the excessive force used against him! Why is it *so* hard to defend the man on that injustice alone? Is it because he’s black? I guess that fact alone is enough to question what he did for the cop to do that. Face down on the floor with several cops on top of and around you, several regular people watching what’s going on and you STILL get shot in the back?! I doubt that would have happened to John Doe who is restrained after a bar fight in Boston. Give me a f*ckin break. This case angers me. And this happens all the time to men of color. Whether or not the victim has a criminal history. The Police across the country routinely target and harass people of color, particularly black men. There are disproportionate percentages of black men in prison. The facts are there for the lookin.

    Just yesterday my partner found his bike stolen in midtown NYC after getting out of work. He called the cops to make a report. It took 2 hours for them to show up, and when they did they were angry at him because he called more than one time; they didn’t like to feel rushed and told him so. He called twice. Instead of taking in his report immediately, they start questioning him as if HE committed a crime! They were questioning him, asking why he was in the area at that time, asking for ID and if he had a criminal history. When he presented his Passport ID Card, they accused him of having a fake ID and threatened to jail him. He called to report his stolen bike. And the building he works in had the thief on video and the precise time his bike was stolen. He turned to the police for help, they instead threatened and harassed him. My partner is black. Would this have happened if he were white? Of course not. If this happened to my innocent man, who was further traumatized and victimized by the police, imagine how they treat people who cause even minor problems. And you question why people of color are predisposed to distrust the very people WE ALSO pay to protect us.

    People of color are not committing crimes at higher rates than any other ethnic group. We’re just targeted more. Believe it.

  19. Much respect to you for being willing to approach a Mehserle supporter with the request for dialogue over an emotional issue. It is the first such conversation that I have read so far. I have a feeling that if only the basic circumstances of the case were described to an observer with no prior knowledge most of them would call what happened murder without any question about it. It’s not that people who would support Mehserle lack basic moral sense, it’s just that they can’t recognize the extent to which that sense has been distorted and manipulated by, amongst other things, racist conditioning from media and social sources that makes it much easier to see African-Americans as criminals and Caucasians as sympathetic victims of circumstance then the other way round. I say this as a white man who grew up with this kind of conditioning struggling to understand the extent to which it has lead me to create the sort of biases I think Kristen also has but is less conscious of . People have to really look at the abstract of the position they are taking and ask if it makes sense, which is not an easy thing to do but necessary when it comes to issues like legal justice. You are right to point out that even if the position taken by Mehserle’s supporters is one of dedicated faith in the moral correctness of both the police and the criminal justice system, then he still ought to be condemned as a criminal because he has violated the codes of both of those systems. If the support is of the individual, because he was not in his right mind – which many sympathizers claim – they ought to recognize that this position implies a Voluntary Manslaughter sentencing and not the far weaker one that he was given. Anyone who really cared about Mehserle and the reputations of both the police and the criminal justice system ought to push for his long term incarceration, since it will save the reputation of the force and presumably reform an unquestionably violent criminal.

  20. Oscar Grant was NOT high on Fentanyl; fentanyl is the pain reliever that the hospital gave him was they tried to save his life. People regurgitate what they read in the press as if it is gospel, as if it is truth. Mehserle’s attorney ran with that info initially and it made its way into the press; by the time the trial happened he had opted to keep it out of court. Stop talking about it as your not-so-subtle way of saying Oscar Grant got what he deserved. He didn’t, but hopefully, Mehserle will.

  21. Since when is shooting a guy point blank in the back an appropriate response to ‘he might of been in a fight’? Thats ok? To kill a guy for maybe fighting? And, the cops did not know his record when they called him, ‘B*tch Ass *igger’. The cop was a racist, or on crack, or both.

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