“This is Beyond Sports” Chuck D on the fight in Arizona
By Dave Zirin
Chuck D. The Hard Rhymer. The man on the mic for the most politically
explosive hip-hop group in history, Public Enemy. With albums like “It
Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back,” “Fear of a Black Planet,”
and anthems like “Fight the Power” and “Bring the Noise” along with
the breathtaking production of the Bomb Squad, PE created a standard
of politics and art. Perhaps their most controversial track was “By
the Time I Get to Arizona” (1991) about seeking revenge against
Arizona political officials for refusing to recognize Dr. Martin
Luther King’s birthday [Lyrics include: ‘Cause my money’s spent on The
goddamn rent/Neither party is mine not the Jackass or the elephant.]
Today, in the wake of Arizona’s draconian anti-immigration Senate Bill
1070, “By the Time I Get to Arizona” has been remixed and revived by
DJ Spooky. Chuck D also recorded his own track several months before
the bill was passed called “Tear Down That Wall.” I spoke to Chuck
about the music and the nexus between immigration politics and sports.
DZ: Why did you choose to record “Tear Down this Wall?”
Chuck D: I had done “Tear Down this Wall” four or five months ago
because I heard a professor who works with my wife here on the West
Coast speak in a speech about the multi-billion dollar dividing wall
between the U.S. and Mexico, so, therefore, I based “Tear Down that
Wall” on the policy of the United States border patrol in the states
of Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. I just wanted to put a
twist of irony on it saying if Ronald Reagan back in 1988 had told Mr.
Gorbachev to tear down that wall separating the world from countries
of capitalism and communism, we have a billion dollar wall right here
in our hemisphere that exists that needs to have a bunch of questions
raised. Questions like: “What the Hell?” I wrote the song about five
months ago and I did it coincidently, with all that’s brewing in the
state of Arizona. Immigration laws and racial profiling is happening
right here and I think the border situation, not only with the U.S.
and Mexico but the U.S. and Canada, on both sides is just out of
control. It’s crazy.
DZ: You did “Tear Down This Wall,” we have the DJ Spooky remix of “By
the Time I Get to Arizona,” and with your wife, Dr. Gaye Theresa
Johnson, you wrote a syndicated column on SB 1070. What’s the response
been to you being so out front on this issue?
Chuck D: Well the response is the usual, but I make it a habit not to
look at any blogs, because I think the font of a computer gives as
much credence to ignorance as it does to somebody who makes sense. So
I try not to read those responses, because anybody can respond
quickly. Back when people had to write letters it took an effort,
especially if someone didn’t have decent penmanship and handwriting. I
try not to look at the responses. I try to do the right thing. I tell
you this much, there is a rap contingent, a hip-hop contingent from
Phoenix, who did a remake of “By the Time I Get to Arizona.” I think
that needs to be recognized because these are young people. The song
is about eight minutes long. There’s about 12 MCs on it, and they are
putting it down. They are talking about how ridiculous this law is.
They are speaking out against it and they are putting all the facts on
the table, and they need to be acknowledged and highlighted. There is
a stereotype about young people and young MCs [being apolitical]. They
DZ: It’s remarkable how the original “By the Time I Get to Arizona”
has been resurrected from the early 90’s now that the struggle has
picked up. Did you hear former NBA player Chris Webber before the
Suns/Spurs game say, “Its like PE said ‘By the Time I get to
Chuck D: [laughs] My Dad told me about that, You know Chris Webber is
the man. I wasn’t tuned into TNT at that particular time.
DZ: He said more than that. He said, “Public Enemy said it a long
time ago. ‘By the Time I Get to Arizona.’ I’m not surprised. They
didn’t even want there to be a Martin Luther King Day when John McCain
was in [office.]. So if you follow history you know that this is part
of Arizona politics.’” So he brought it all together with Public Enemy
at the center of it.
Chuck D: Unfortunately when it comes to culture, the speed of
technology and news today makes things out of sight, out of mind.
While these situations [the MLK fight and the immigration fights] are
different, the politics of both things stay around like a stain….
Once again Arizona has put themselves into this mix. I don’t know what
the hell was on Gov. Jan Brewer’s mind or what contingent is behind
her, but, you know, to make a decision like this and to be told to
ignore the people who have been in this area on this earth the longest
period of time. It just kind of resonates with me as being crazy.
DZ: Do you support an athletic or artistic boycott of Arizona until
this gets settled?
Chuck D: Dave, you know I do. Artists and musicians can say we’re
going to play Texas, El Paso, New Mexico, Albuquerque, and we gotta
play L.A. But we’ll skip Phoenix, Flagstaff, Tucson and the like. But
you know what this is really a challenge for: that’s Major League
Baseball. You’ve got nearly a third of the players that are Latino. If
they don’t stand up to this bill, they will actually be validating the
divide amongst Latinos [between documented and undocumented
At the same time they’ll also be lining themselves right
into the stereotype of what an athlete is if they don’t speak out: a
high priced slave that doesn’t say anything. And to me it’s beyond
just boycotting the All-Star game. What are those Latino players on
the Diamondbacks going to do? What are the players going to say who go
into Arizona to play against the Diamondbacks? What are they going to
say and what are they going to do? Major League Baseball has to step
The NBA has very few players of Latino descent and [the Suns] are
saying something. But Major League Baseball, if they don’t say
anything, it’s crazy. The owners, the team, the league, and especially
the players, whether they come from the Dominican Republic, whether
they come from Venezuela, whether they come from Puerto Rico, they
better step up. If they don’t step up, the music industry, at least
from my area, we’re going to clown them.
For us to speak out against
this law, and basketball stepping up, and Major League Baseball not
stepping up at all?! Come on now, give me a break. And I know a lot of
the cats they live in the Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico or
whatever, there’s like a trillion years difference between them and
their high salaries and the average people living in the streets. They
might build themselves a castle with a militia to protect them, but
this is the time to unite yourself with the people and at least live
in the legacy that [Major League Hall of Famer] Roberto Clemente set
of uniting people just to protect against the nonsense that the other
side can come up with. They need to know that it’s going to spread if
they don’t come up and say something about it.
DZ: Any final thoughts? Perhaps about Major League Baseball pulling
the All Star Game out of Phoenix?
Chuck D: At the end of the day man, sports is really not that
important compared to people living their everyday lives. Say you have
a Major League player, and he happens to play for another team, or he
happens to play for the Diamondbacks and he gets pulled over because
people think he’s an illegal immigrant. Then all of a sudden that’s
when the “ish” finally hits the fan? Come on. This is beyond sports.
We want athletes to speak up because they have advantages. They have
everyday coverage. They’re covered by a person that has a mic and a
camera in their face, and this is the time to step up. Major League
Baseball pulling the All-Star game out of Arizona should be the least
[Dave Zirin is the author of the forthcoming “Bad Sports: How Owners
are Ruining the Games we Love” (Scribner) Receive his column every
week by emailing firstname.lastname@example.org. Contact him at
“but I make it a habit not to
look at any blogs, because I think the font of a computer gives as
much credence to ignorance as it does to somebody who makes sense. So I try not to read those responses, because anybody can respond quickly. Back when people had to write letters it took an effort,
especially if someone didn’t have decent penmanship and handwriting. I try not to look at the responses.”
I look at rappers in exactly the same way. There are researchers and people that really know what they’re talking about – and then their are entertainers, celebrities and rappers who have made a career of peddling sound bites and sensationalism – like Chuck D.
What we need is more long term outlooks – which will only happen by being honest with ourselves.
where’s ur long term solution or was that a soundbite? Whats this long term outlook u did about Arizona u did that Chuck and everyone seems to be missing?
Leave the past behind,
Chuck D. has always been honest with himself and with us. You want to talk about a long term outlook, “By The Time I Get To Arizona” was done back in 1991, and almost 20 years later, the same issue can practically be applied to what is happening today. It seems like Chuck D. had a long term outlook when writing and recording that song back then – through honesty with himself and with us.
Thanks Bro. Davey!
The Incredible D!
Perhaps the single most important element in mastering the techniques and tactics of racing is experience. But once you have the fundamentals, acquiring the experience is a matter of time.